Good points all. One minor quibble: with a BAC of only 0.12, I'd say Gibson was much more sober than a brass monkey.

Dafydd,

I completely agree with your take on Foxman, the ADL, and the rest of the liberal Jewish establishment. I, too, am a Jew disgusted with their attacks on Christianity and "bogeymen" of the Christian right. It matters little to them that they may be undermining Israel's and the Jewish people's greatest supporters in American, so long as they are attacking their political enemies. I cannot think of a more clear case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I also agree that the attack on Gibson is both weak in merit and over-the-top.

That said, I think you are excusing Gibson a bit too easily. Perhaps he was merely channeling the demons of his father while in a drunken stupor. But, was he truly three-sheets, or was he very nicely buzzed, or somewhere in between? We can't be sure, but, from what I have read so far, the evidence that he was blind drunk is far from conclusive.

Furthermore, even if he were completely intoxicated to the point of near incompetent insanity, that does not necessarily mean that his offensive statements were not (at the least, in part) really based on his own, and not his father's, feelings. Suffice to say, I don't know. But, you don't either.

I would no sooner join a boycott started on Gibson by Abe Foxman than you. But even a broken clock is right twice a day. Why be so quick to categorically assume an exculpative basis to excuse, or at least shift blame for, the remarks?

I enjoy both Sachi's and your insights. Keep up the great work.

I have to agree with you, Dafydd, that all this proves about Mel Gibson, other than the distinct possibility that he's an alcoholic who needs to get some help before he kills somebody, is that he was RAISED as an anti-Semite not that he IS one. It is always difficult to COMPLETELY "unlearn" what we learn at our father's knee even if we KNOW it is wrong and sinful, and Mel Gibson IMHO deserves some credit for making a substantial though not perfect recovery.

However, I think you ARE wrong when you say "I couldn't care less what somebody says when he's drunk." I think we SHOULD care at least to the extent of making it one more argument against GETTING drunk. There's dispute about the Bible condemning DRINKING alcohol, but there is no dispute about it condemning DRUNKENNESS. If news reports about PREVIOUS, covered-up drunken run-ins with indulgent law enforcent absent the anti-Semitic remarks are true, Mel needs to get himself clean and sober in a hurry.

As for claims that "Passion" was anti-Semitic, IMHO most of them quickly boil down to claims that the Gospels are anti-Semitic, a charge that is only possible if you consider them FICTION. If as most Christians believe, the Gospels are accurate history, it is asking a bit much that Christians shut up about the subject simply because anti-Semites have used them as justification for their evil. What Mr. Foxman is conveniently forgetting is that most of America's Right-Wing Christians today are if anything, PHILO-Semitic fanatics. Granted they might love Jews for all the wrong reasons, "We think y'all are going to convert yourselves in mass after Jesus comes again," but in a world chock full of anti-Semitism, you'd think Mr. Foxman would want all the allies he can get, even if they have an annoying habit of proselytizing constantly: "I'm glad you've 'got my back', but could you shut up about Jesus for five minutes? Thank you!"

I have to agree with you, Dafydd, that all this proves about Mel Gibson, other than the distinct possibility that he's an alcoholic who needs to get some help before he kills somebody, is that he was RAISED as an anti-Semite not that he IS one. It is always difficult to COMPLETELY "unlearn" what we learn at our father's knee even if we KNOW it is wrong and sinful, and Mel Gibson IMHO deserves some credit for making a substantial though not perfect recovery.

He might not even recall saying anything, I know there are some nights in MY past that are a complete blank,

Sober 17 years now.

Dear Daffyd,

Not to quibble, but the correct expression is "three sheets to the wind". This is a nautical expression. The most popular sailboat is a sloop. A sloop has one mast with a sail aft (mainsail) and a sail forward (jib). A rope used to control a sail is called a sheet. The mainsail is controlled by one sheet, the jib by two. Thus the expression refers to someone (usually) who has lost all control.

Regards,
Roy

Ain't Hollyweird great? You can lie, cheat, do drugs, abuse family, rape, be a racist (assuming your skin color is correct to begin with), side with terrorists, and generally act like a complete jackass. But for God's sake, don't be an anti-Semite! Oh yeah, also, don't be a Republican. But really, just don't be an anti-Semite!

Mel: "I ...said things that I do not believe to be true and which are despicable."

Abe: "It's not a proper apology because it does not go to the essence of his bigotry and his anti-Semitism."

"essence"? Sheesh. The essence is alcohol abuse and a crappy childhood.

Imagine how much traction he would have gotten had he said something along the lines of:

"We accept Mr. Gibson's apology, and we understand how things like this can occasionally happen. There are times when we all say things that we later come to regret, if not immediately, then eventually. If Mr. Gibson still feels bad about what he said, we would be honored to have him speak publicly to our group, or perhaps participate in some of our future fundraising or awareness building efforts." That would have been a homerun. And it would have accomplished so much more than pointless chastisement or threats to ruin his career. It also puts Mel on the spot.

Prediction - If Mel's next movie is a big hit all will be forgiven. If it tanks, well then obviously it was because of his anti-Semitic remarks.

I remember a Woody Allen movie where he accused someone of being an anti-Semite because he asked Woody "D'jew eat?". Abe must not have seen that.

Come to think of it, maybe Scorsese is a anti-Semite. I always wondered about the line "Hey, Jew talkin' to me?"

Thank you, Dafydd. If I may chime in, I tried to look for corroboration of the reported "Jew" remarks and did not find it. I saw only the statements to the newspapers of the arresting Deputy as initially reported. It could be that I did not look in the right place. I question the fairness and veracity of the news reports.

I am not especially literal about the New Testament. I tend to think of the Crucifixion as a tripartite conspiracy by the Romans, the neo-Seleucid "fake" Jews (Herod and incestuous family) and the Sanhedrin, versus the same nationalities -- the centurion whose daughter was in a coma, the Disciples with Greek names and the Disciples with Jewish names. The distinction, the rich and powerful establishment versus the poor and powerless revolutionaries. The Catholic and Orthodox Creeds, as well, pin individual responsibility, not collective. They name Pontius Pilate as the killer. All right, I'm meandering. I stop.

It's too bad what happened to Mel Gibson. If he were but a prominent, outspoken, liberal democrat in Hollywood he wouldn't even have to apologize. He'd be immediately forgiven and would immediately get about the work of showing Jews, or the nation of Israel, as guilty of hating terrorists and depicting terrorists as good guys.

Then he would be widely recieved and win an academy award.

Unfortunately for poor Mel Gibson, you can't be a drunk and a Republican/Christian. Otherwise you are going to be hung out to dry.

Dunno about his next film though. He's lucky I think that this happened so long before it begins. We all have a short memory and this will all blow over before the summer ends. It will be but a book mark in history when the comercials come out for this next movie.

If both the Romans and the Jews participated in the killing of Christ, shouldn't anyone who is anti-Semitic for this reason also be...anti-Romantic?

I hate myself sometimes.

I agree with you totally. I knew there was a reason I had you on my blogroll. I will link to you in my comments on this tonight

Great post, Dafydd! Big D, I think it's the 'Republican' moniker that has Hollyweird up in arms. Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakhan are always welcome in Hollywood and both are far more anti-Semitic when SOBER than Mr. Gibson is when drunk. But, they're liberals, so it's ok.

MJS:

Furthermore, even if he were completely intoxicated to the point of near incompetent insanity, that does not necessarily mean that his offensive statements were not (at the least, in part) really based on his own, and not his father's, feelings. Suffice to say, I don't know. But, you don't either.

I don't need to know, because I could not care less what somebody thinks in the deepest, darkest recesses of his closet.

I care what he says and does while sober and in public.

In public and while sober, and even including that boring movie the Passion of the Christ, I have never heard Gibson slur Jews or anyone else. Do I care whether this is because deep down, he loves Judaism, or whether it's because he knows that society won't allow him to express his dark desires? No, and I don't care.

It is enough that he does not say such terrible things while sober and in public. Beyond that, it's none of my concern.

Dafydd

Abe Foxman lost all credibility with me after his vicious tirade against David Horowitz a few years back. This was regarding an ad Horowitz took out denouncing reparations for slavery.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=4234

Wrote Foxman back in 2001:

"For years, anti-Semites have sought to influence young minds on campus with advertisements that deny that the Holocaust happened. Despite having no basis in historical fact, these offensive ads have been accepted by many campus newspaper editors on the assumption that the First Amendment allows no alternative.

In fact, college editors, like their professional counterparts, reserve the right to deny advertising based on a historical fallacy or that is explicitly offensive to a minority group.

The ad by David Horowitz denigrates slavery's prominence in American history and denies the pain and suffering of African-Americans. Mr. Horowitz asserts that he voices legitimate questions about the need for slavery reparations. But his premise serves no purpose other than to foment racism and hate."

Bigotry does not eminate from a logical thought process, but rather from a learned predisposition. Bigotry can,however, be expanded upon or altered by a logical thought process. In the end, after thoughtful examination, bigotry takes on the characteristics of a failed theory. Drunk Mel is an example of the prior and Hitler an example of the latter.

According to NewsMax

Disney Cancels Mel Gibson Holocaust Series

The Logic of this escapes me.

In vino, veritas If someone only beats his wife when he's drunk, do we say he's not a wife-beater, because he wasn't in his right mind and we only care about when he's sober? Why would speech acts be different?

Joshua wrote "In vino, veritas If someone only beats his wife when he's drunk, do we say he's not a wife-beater, because he wasn't in his right mind and we only care about when he's sober? Why would speech acts be different?"

First, by any rational measure wife beating is much, much worse than wife insulting. Thus, nobody seriously proposes giving someone a pass for administering a beating just because it's a first time offense, but it's a little different when all you are talking about is words.

Second, when you pin down the anti-Christian and anti-Republican bigots screaming for Gibson's crucifixion here and inject them with truth serum, they are forced to admit that this certainly appears to be a first-time offense for anti-Semitism, though not for DUI. If they are honest, which is asking a LOT I realize, they are forced to admit that making a movie about Christ's crucifixion in which Jews come out looking better than they do in the Gospels and working on a project about the Holocaust on the premise that (a) it HAPPENED and (b) it was BAD is not the sort of thing you'd expect an anti-Semite to do. A FORMER anti-Semite trying to make amends perhaps, but not a CURRENT one. But then it figures that there would be more outrage on the secular Left against SAYING nasty things about Jews than there is against actually KILLING Jews.

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