April 12, 2006

Something Added to This Picture

Hatched by Dafydd

This bizarre Italian election story just got bizarrer.

In the New York Times' story about the recount underway in the Italian elections -- where Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi (our best pal in continental Europe) is clinging to power by a thread that may snap at any moment -- the Times glosses over a rather startling piece of news.

First, here is what Reuters said yesterday:

Among the possible problems were 43,028 "disputed" votes in the lower house count that official scrutineers had decided to annul despite their doubts as to whether the ballots had really had been spoilt or not.

Berlusconi said he wanted those disputed votes reviewed.

As well he should. But the job just quietly got bigger. Here is today's Times:

Today, the Italian Interior Ministry said that a re-examination had begun on about 80,000 disputed ballots, the first step toward a final result that may soon clarify a troubling moment of uncertainty here.

How did 40,028 turn into "about 80,000" -- in a single day? And doesn't this merit some notice, maybe even an explanation?

This is really starting to get interesting. But if Warren Christopher and his entourage begin packing their bags, I think we should impound their passports.

Hatched by Dafydd on this day, April 12, 2006, at the time of 6:34 PM

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Comments

The following hissed in response by: Mr. Michael

Here's a quick way to add 40,000 ballots to the number they found earlier:
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/boxes-of-ballots-found-in-rome/

Basically, there were a pile of large boxes FULL of marked ballots found out on the curb. Seems the candidate of choice had already been declared the winner, so there was no need to count any more ballots.

Just the inverse of what happened up here in Seattle last election... we kept finding MORE ballots, at least until the Democrat Candidate was ahead in the recount. THEN they stopped counting.

It's never enough to run a clean election; you also have to have an honest count.

Makes you pause when you consider the company that will be tallying US votes is based in Venezuela with our buddy Chavez, doesn't it?
http://www.americanthinker.com/comments.php?comments_id=4744

Mr. Michael

The above hissed in response by: Mr. Michael [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 12, 2006 10:11 PM

The following hissed in response by: Dirty Dingus

BTW I think that Berlusconi sqaundered his chances. I don't like Prodi but Berlusconi is very little better. He has a big problem understanding the difference between "good for Berlusconi" and "good for Italy", has been involved in numerous questionable business dealings and so on. Worse he has never managed to actually do any of the reforms he promised to do because he has spent much of his time changing the law to benefit himelf.

The above hissed in response by: Dirty Dingus [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 13, 2006 12:54 AM

The following hissed in response by: Don

The problem is that in a nationwide election cheating is just too easy and definately worthwhile.

Compare the Italian system to the systems in the UK and the US. In the UK systematic cheating makes little sense because there is no national election, only a series of local elections. Pile up a big faux vote in Brixton and it has no effect on Tony Blair's local election in Yorkshire. Under the US electoral college systematic cheating to pile up huge margins in Texas or California have no impact in Florida or Ohio, where the election is actually decided. And those places come in for a lot more scrutiny, which limits the scope of any cheating.

In Ital;y cheating can be anywhere and impacts the entire election because it's merely 50% + 1.

The above hissed in response by: Don [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 13, 2006 5:31 AM

The following hissed in response by: Don

@Dirty Dingus

You should understand that while Berlusconi is everything you say, he's as much a victim of the system there as anyone. The Prodi coalition's idea of being magnanimous victors is to put Berlusconi in a nice jail cell. Berlusconi's core 'crime' was founding a TV network when Italian law gave a monopoly to a single 'public' corporation. Everything else proceeded from that. Berlusconi's other 'crime' was bribing former Socialist Prime Minister Bernardo Craxi.

Craxi piled up a fortune of $600 million from bribes, only a small portion from Berlusconi. Yet Berlusconi has been selectively pursued. Vurtually no one else has been prosecuted for bribing Craxi.

What does that tell you?

The above hissed in response by: Don [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 13, 2006 5:39 AM

The following hissed in response by: Dirty Dingus

BTW the explanation - from the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4909120.stm - is:

The contested ballots being checked include 43,000 votes for the lower house of parliament - where Mr Prodi won by 25,000 votes, and another 39,000 ballots for the Senate vote.

In reply to Don - I don't disagree that Berlusconi is just one of many corrupt italian politicians and businessman. What I dislike about him most is that he has not implemented, or even tried to implement, the reforms he promised.

The above hissed in response by: Dirty Dingus [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 14, 2006 4:28 AM

The following hissed in response by: Dafydd ab Hugh

Dirty Dingus:

In reply to Don - I don't disagree that Berlusconi is just one of many corrupt italian politicians and businessman. What I dislike about him most is that he has not implemented, or even tried to implement, the reforms he promised.

Do you believe the Commies will?

Dafydd

The above hissed in response by: Dafydd ab Hugh [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 14, 2006 5:05 AM

The following hissed in response by: Don

@Dirty, Daffyd

Berlusconi wasn't in a position to implement reforms because of a deterioration in the Italian economic position. With the integration of Eastern Europe into the EU Italy's share of world manufacturing has declined by as much as 1/3rd. It's relative decline is actually worse than either France or Germany's performance in the same period, in large part because Italy had traditionally been a center of relatively low cost rather than highly skilled manufactures.

Some of the work has gone to China but much of it went to Poland.

Italy also has a fairly high proportion of 'low tech' manfactures such as high end textiles (silks) and leather goods. As China moves 'upmarket' guess what gets impacted?

Finally, Italy does not have the highly developed services sector that countries like the US, UK, and Ireland have. They don't even have the lesser service sectors that Germany, France, or Switzerland have. The Italian University system is as risible as the one in France but lacks France's excellent 'Grandes Ecoles' at the top end. So services aren't there to take the edge off the economic impact.

Prodi probably won't be able to reform the economy in a meaningful way because his narrow victory means that every part of the coaltion must agree to every reform he does do.

What I'm hoping he can do is put through a law limiting the proportion of the Italian TV market can be owned by one company but NOT force the sale to any one entity. That would allow a diversification of Italian TV. perhaps with outsiders like Rupert Murdoch coming in.

Secondly I hope that Prodi is able to begin reform of the Italian univerity system. This is an area in which he has some expertise, having been an economics professor at Bologna. If he can do this Italy can begin to produce more quality graduates who can then expand the Italian service sector. This would be a very long-term reform but a highly meaningful one.

The above hissed in response by: Don [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 14, 2006 5:26 AM

The following hissed in response by: cdquarles

LOL

Heh, it will matter not a whit until the average Joe European realizes what Ludwig von Mises knew in 1917 and revolts (hmm, we need to get the average Joe American to do the same thing here). Socialism doesn't work, hasn't worked and will never work. Socialism is slavery.

The above hissed in response by: cdquarles [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 18, 2006 10:23 PM

The following hissed in response by: cdquarles

LOL

Heh, it will matter not a whit until the average Joe European realizes what Ludwig von Mises knew in 1917 and revolts (hmm, we need to get the average Joe American to do the same thing here). Socialism doesn't work, hasn't worked and will never work. Socialism is slavery.

The above hissed in response by: cdquarles [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 18, 2006 10:27 PM

The following hissed in response by: cdquarles

LOL

Heh, it will matter not a whit until the average Joe European realizes what Ludwig von Mises knew in 1917 and revolts (hmm, we need to get the average Joe American to do the same thing here). Socialism doesn't work, hasn't worked and will never work. Socialism is slavery.

The above hissed in response by: cdquarles [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 18, 2006 10:27 PM

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