I think a better analogy to Reid would be Paul Reiser's character, Burke. He was the one who was working to engineer more bloodshed in the hopes that he could make a short-term temporary profit off giving the monsters what they wanted. And of course, those hopes were proven to be quite idiotic when the monsters killed him.

The aliens didn't care that he was rooting for them to win. They just saw him as an easy lunch - far easier than the marines that were shooting back.

Tippy toes! Tippy toes! I watch too much TV.

Stick with George Costanza. Always picking the wrong fight, at the wrong time, with the wrong person, over an inconsequential thing. But then running or quiting whenever a real challenge came up.

How about we follow the Seinfeld advice - if every instinct the Democrats have is wrong, then by definition, doing the opposite must be right.

Reid's idea of leading is being the first coward to flee the battle field.

If you haven't seen the atomic slam Dennis Miller gave Harry Reid it is really worth watching. I get a kick out of listening to people use $30 words to tell someone they are a putz.

The Iraqi war has many victories that aren't covered by MSM. I have friends that are on Individual Assignment (from the Navy) that are over there and they report good things happening. The one thing that they do say is that there aren't enough people over there who act like they want democracy. They are too busy fighting each other to work together for peace and a stable country. Outside interferrence by other countries doesn't help either.

If we can't get the Iraqi's to band together and form a strong, stable government, then how long are we supposed to stay over there trying to help people whom the majority could care less?

Big D:

Tippy toes! Tippy toes!

Er... I think that was "Ti-pi-tin," a World War II song, not "tippy toes!"

Trickish Knave:

If we can't get the Iraqi's to band together and form a strong, stable government, then how long are we supposed to stay over there trying to help people whom the majority could care less?

If we're wise, the answer is, "as long as it takes;" because we're not fighting the war as an act of charity to ungrateful Iraqis... we're fighting for our own security. And that motivation exists regardless of the gratitude or ingratitude of the Iraqis.

Dafydd

we're fighting for our own security

Seems like a Catch-22 since so many of our soldiers/sailors/marines are dying for a majority of people who don't seem to want to help themselves.

The coup in Gaza only strengthens the image that Arab countries are incapable of grasping the idea of Democracy. I heard a snippet this morning as I turned my truck off and by the time I realized how relevant the quote was it was too late. One of our generals said that no Arab country has prospered under a democracy- for one reason or another only a dictatorship can keep any resemblance of order.

Straying from a point I can now not remember, I, being in the military, realize what we are doing over there, what is at stake, and the consequences of failure. However, if our security depends on a stable nation then it is reasonable to think that if the nation is not supporting us, then the propensity of nudging the country towards democracy seems slim. Even the Brits figured this one out: (h/t Mike Lief)

18th-century British historian and Tory member of Parliament Edward Gibbon gave [his reason] for changing his position on the Crown's fighting the rebellious American colonists:

"I shall scarcely give my consent to exhaust still farther the finest country in the World in the prosecution of a War, from whence no reasonable man entertains any hope of success. It is better to be humbled than ruined."

We have made strides, we have done good things for good people over there. I want us to win this fight, but we can't do it alone and there doesn't seem to be any relief in sight. Perhaps we need to find another alternative to our safety and security than trying to make this horse drink.

Dafydd,

You give me too much credit. "Tippy toes" is George Constanza's secret code word to Jerry. They were busy trying to swap the message machine tapes at his girlfriend's house.

Murphy's Law of Mad Science...the IQ/resources required to destroy the world goes down ~1 IQ point every 18 months. So, if today it requires an IQ of 160 or above to destroy the world, by 2040 most high schoolers will be able to do it.

It is not colonialism, hegemony, oil, imperialism, etc. driving the war in Iraq - it is the fact that backwards, broke, nutty states like North Korea and Iran can now get the bomb.

Big D:

You give me too much credit. "Tippy toes" is George Constanza's secret code word to Jerry. They were busy trying to swap the message machine tapes at his girlfriend's house.

No, I got it the first time; I watched every episode of Seinfeld, even the wretched last season (only relieved by the "all the birds come home to roost" series finale).

I'm saying that I believe the code word that George suggested was "Ti-pi-tin," the song (sung by the Andrews Sisters, among others) -- not "tippy toes" I don't have them on tape or DVD, but if you do, maybe you could watch the episode in question and settle our memory dispute!

Trickish Knave:

Seems like a Catch-22 since so many of our soldiers/sailors/marines are dying for a majority of people who don't seem to want to help themselves.

They're not dying for the *#&$! Iraqis... they're dying for the *#&$! United States of America!

The coup in Gaza only strengthens the image that Arab countries are incapable of grasping the idea of Democracy.

Yes, that's the image. But one could have said the same about Turkey until after World War I. Or about Indonesia and the Philippines. Why should Moslems in Arabia be the only Moslems in all the world who are unable to "grasp[] the idea of Democracy?"

However, if our security depends on a stable nation then it is reasonable to think that if the nation is not supporting us, then the propensity of nudging the country towards democracy seems slim.

It is supporting us, tremendously and at great personal risk. The GoI is moving as quickly as such a nascent parliament can move to get those necessary bills passed; it is the D.C. time table that is unrealistic.

Congress demands an alacrity in Iraq that is pure chutzpah, considering the blazing speed with which Congress itself is handling the mounting immigration problem, the looming Social Security bankruptcy, and indeed, every other issue of substance.

But moreso, a huge batch of Sunni tribes in Anbar, Diyala, Salahadin, and Baghdad have risen up against al-Qaeda and joined us in fighting them. Shia no longer look to Muqtada Sadr for what to do, and they have not reacted -- at least not so far -- to the newest staggering provocation by AQI: knocking down the remaining two minarets of the Golden-Dome mosque in Samarra.

We're getting a lot more cooperation out of Iraq than we're getting from, e.g., Saudi Arabia or Egypt.

Perhaps we need to find another alternative to our safety and security than trying to make this horse drink.

There isn't any. Failure is always an option... but in Iraq, it's a completely unacceptable one.

Dafydd

They're not dying for the *#&$! Iraqis... they're dying for the *#&$! United States of America!

You are driving this home like it is the crux of my argument and it is semantics. So I'll rephrase it to avoid any more appearances of the purple vein on your temple:
"Seems like a Catch-22 since so many of our soldiers/sailors/marines are dying for the United States of America while the majority of people in Iraq who don't seem to want to help themselves or our soldiers/sailors/marines"

Why should Moslems in Arabia be the only Moslems in all the world who are unable to "grasp[] the idea of Democracy?

I don't know. Sounds like it would make a great sociological dissertation though. But history shows that they have not been able to have a stable democracy- dicatatorships on the other hand thrive. Perhaps it is a cultural identity?

Like I said before, there are good things happening over there and I can appreciate and share your optomistic attitude, but the odds are against us- D.C. timetable not included.

Trickish Knave:

You are driving this home like it is the crux of my argument and it is semantics. So I'll rephrase it to avoid any more appearances of the purple vein on your temple:

"Seems like a Catch-22 since so many of our soldiers/sailors/marines are dying for the United States of America while the majority of people in Iraq who don't seem to want to help themselves or our soldiers/sailors/marines"

But don't you see how this destroys your argument? If we're doing this for our security, for our national interest, for ourselves, then what does it matter if Iraqis are grateful or a bunch of ingrates?

Consider this analogy: A terrible epidemic is sweeping through your city; people are dropping like flies, and even the uninfected are afraid to leave their houses... something like the Black Death.

But then a medical researcher comes up with a promising vaccine. So you send teams of doctors into every neighborhood, vaccinating everyone (compulsary vaccination).

Now, some of those you help will be desperately grateful; others will be surly ingrates and may even spit on you. But you're not vaccinating the people as a favor to them... you're doing it to stop an epidemic from spreading through the rest of the region.

And in the final analysis, it makes no difference whether the people you help appreciate it or not.

But history shows that they have not been able to have a stable democracy- dicatatorships on the other hand thrive. Perhaps it is a cultural identity?

History also showed, for all the centuries up through World War I, that Turkey was unable to have a stable democracy -- only dictatorship thrived. Yesterday is not always a good guide to tomorrow... that's static thinking. Or to put it in stock terms, "past performance is no guarantee of future results."

What you said can also be said about every new thing: History shows it has never happened before (by definition).

But history also tells us that there are inflection points where the graph turns from one direction to another. So let's not give up after just a few years of trying.

Dafydd

"Seems like a Catch-22 since so many of our soldiers/sailors/marines are dying for the United States of America while the majority of people in Iraq who don't seem to want to help themselves or our soldiers/sailors/marines"

When their country is threatened, soldiers/sailors/marines, and airmen, do die to protect it, and amazingly, almost all of them are able to confront the possibility of doing so and behave valiantly. Unfortunate, yes. The alternatives - much, much worse.

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