I think that is a correct view. I hope people realize that many ancestors in our own family tress came from persecution.

The Kurds appear to have been a overall plus. Looks like the Iranian community in LA is ing gangbusters.

BY the way is there a place to send email to this blog writers on here. I can't find a address wven though I am sure it must be right in fromt of me

LSUsportsfan:

BY the way is there a place to send email to this blog writers on here. I can't find a address wven though I am sure it must be right in fromt of me

No, we've never implemented an e-mail address, even though they're of course available as part of the hosting package. I keep dithering whether I should. On the one hand, we could conceivably get hot tips that someone doesn't want to post openly; on the other, we would get scores of e-mails from people who want to send comments that way instead of using the commenting system.

So I'm torn. I might implement it for a while and see how it works.

Is it something you can't post here? Remember, I'm not particularly bothered by topic drift or even completely off-topic comments, so long as they're not attacks.

Dafydd

Well it is immigration related. I was going to send a email on it to you because I think this needs to gets out.

As I keep saying many of the forces behind this immigration debate are quite radical. In the end it is not really about the "illegals". THey have played us perfectly because the "illegals" take up all the air in the room. I am talking about CIS FAIR and other Tanton groups.

This just drove me up the wall today when I read this from last weeks Washington Post

The three were sworn in as the military and the country are engaged in a vigorous, divisive debate about what place immigrants should have in the armed forces and society at large. The ceremony at George Washington’s home took place as lawmakers on the other side of the Potomac River began debating a controversial immigration bill that would, among other provisions, grant legal status to virtually all undocumented workers, create a temporary worker program and tighten border controls. The bill also calls for allowing the military to be a path to citizenship for a limited number of undocumented immigrants — those who were brought to the United Stateswhen they were younger than 16 and have been living here for at least five years. ,,,,,,,,,

The ceremony also came as some military experts want to open the armed forces to undocumented immigrants and foreign recruits to fill the ranks as the Army and Marines plan troop increases. Critics fear a flood of recruits lured solely by the promise of legal status. “A very large number of non-citizens could change the purpose of the military from the defense of the country to a job and a way to get a foot in the door of the United States,” said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, which advocates restrictions on immigration. “It becomes a kind of mercenary thing.” Others argue that a liberalized policy could improve the armed forces. Margaret Stock, an immigration lawyer, Army officer and law professor at West Point, noted that during wartime, military brass can already sign up undocumented immigrants, some of whom have received citizenship. “I think that it’s great for the military to allow people to enlist who are qualified to be in the military,” Stock said. “Having papers doesn’t tell me whether someone’s qualified or not.”http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/21/AR2007052101739

Well, Mr Krikorian has talked about this before in a very weak piece I think for the NRO in 2003
http://www.nationalreview.com/nr_comment/nr_comment042203.asp

I love this observation he made
Not to put too fine a point on it, we should go to any length to avoid developing a kind of mercenary army, made up of foreigners loyal to their units and commanders but not to the Republic. It didn't work out well for the Romans.

Good Grief. I can tell you right now that I am willing to be he is not a Southerner. I could tell him countless stories of Irish on both sides in the Civil war fighting each other. Great battles were had. In fact one Louisiana National Guard Unit and a famous NEw York Unit that once fought each other in the civil war in a famous battle hooked up again in Iraq.I could go on about WWI and WWII and how so many of these same comments were made aabout Japanesse, Italians, and Germans of American descent.

See, Mr. Krikorian does not really care or perhaps even believes the underlying premise of his arguments. His group just wants to stop immigration period. THerefore it is war on all fronts.

I wrote this to NRO today
Mark Krikorian is the head guy at National Review on opposing immigration. He is the one that is often quoted in newspapers, the blogs, and the media .He opposes this bill. He opposes the issuance of more High Tech Visas and wants them reduced. Now he opposes even this even being a pathway. Now, I realized he was not speaking for National Review. But surely the people at NRO are reading what is in the Washington Post. Yet I dont't recall anyone bringing this up

His arguments are complete balderdash. Any embedded Jouranalist will tell you that. In fact this afternoon I plan to write to as many of them and ask them to respond. One of the first person to killed in this conflict was someone that came here as a illegal in his youth. There are no indications that these people were less loving of this country

Also there is a horrible lack of history here. The Civil War was important in many ways. It made us an Country in ways not just decided on the battlefield. Tons of new off the boat immigrants(especally Irish) from both South and North forever bonded to this Country by fighting and dying all over it. The north recruited even overseas. The anti Catholicism that was always a part of United States early history never made a substantial comeback. Even in the 20's with the influx of Italians it never reached it previous heights. That too quickly went way after WWII. Why? Because Americans no matter what their creed, religion, etc fought and died by each other. If the armed forces had been intergrated in WWII, we might not have had such a dramatic Civil Rights era.

To call this a "mercenary thing" is beyond the pale. Do we dishonor those that join to get college benefits in the same tone? The military wants to expand their ranks. Does the anti immigration movement want to deny them this area of recruits. Is anything sacred or is anything up for attack in this cause? Is not ,as we have seen form our past, service in the military assimilation par excellance?

I am forwarding this to every NRO person that has a email posted today. To those that don't have their email posted online please forward it to them. If we are going to talk about provisions in the bill, we darn should talk about this.Especially since one of the leading commentators on NRO is opposing it.

I am emailing YON among others and asking him to please consider contributing something to NRO on this matter.


Here are some Michael Yon thoughts on this subject

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/welcome-aboard.htm/


JH
Louisiana
___________________________

Well those were my thoughts. Again, there is alot more in play than the "illegals". As we are dazzled with the issue of regularization issue there are other forces at work. Personally, If they sign up(an illegal) let them bring in their spouse or parents in the legalization frame work if they qualify as a part of the deal. Nothing screams assimilation than your son, daughter, daddy, or spouce fighting for his country.

THe question is why are not hearing about this provision on the right wing blogs? IS it because it makes good sense? I don't know. Perhaps it is not being advocated because it points out something potentially good in the immigration bill and Lord knows we don't want that. It is just kill it all all cost.

It should be noted that one person at NRO online has emailed me and said he would have no problem with such a provision. Good for him. THe issue is not so much NRO but conservatives questioning the FAIR, CIS, and NUMBERSUSA folks and not taking everything at face value.

FOr instance we know we will not have an Armed Service that is majority foreigner. THe provision that is at stake hear target illegals that were basically kids when brought here. FOr all purposes they are as American in experience and culture than any many natural born Americans.

How does one conduct a background check on a nation that will neither cooperate or has motives for passing inaccurate information? Criminal records are virtually non existant in the third world and in any case bribery would prevent any meaningful checks. since even birth documents are meaningless.

Yes we should ban immigrants from suspect nations, unless they are non muslims. Anyone feigning their actual background should be deported with their family immediately after first fofeiting all assets.

Unfair? Not COMPARED TO WHAT cHRISTIANS SUFFER IN mOSLEM LANDS.

"Is the referrant of "them" in the last sentence (highlighted blue) "refugees" or "terrorists or terrorist sympathizers"? Obviously it would strike any sane person as insane to give the latter legal status;..."

You mean, "referent", of course. Also, by "the latter", do you mean "terrorists..." or "...terrorist sympathizers"? Hee hee!

Yeah, I understand the intent of the quotation marks, but the pending amnesty gives me pains I discharge upon your typing.

One of the first Marines who died in Iraq was born in Guatemala. I read on a milblog ages ago that the insurgents have a hell of a time understanding the Latinos when they intercept radio messages. Drives them crazy.

Back in WW2 my Dad served with Spanish guys from New Mexico, Indians from Arizona, Cajuns from Louisiana and Italians from New York. This is not exactly the first time we have had men and women from different racial, ethnic and national backgrounds in our military. Just look at them. The other day I saw some story referencing a young woman who joined up whose parents had been boat people from Viet Nam.

There is nothing mercenary about it. It is in fact very traditional.

And as for who do we keep out? Those people in London who were responsible for killing all those people were British citizens, not Iraqis. Back before WW2 the anti immigrant lobby in this country did their best to keep European Jews out of the country. They refused to relax quotas even when it meant people would die. I hope our fear of the Other does not compel us to do anything so shameful again.

BTW, those Japanese who were locked up in camps during WW2 still served, mostly in Europe. And Filipinos served in our military as well.

LTCTed:

Thanks for the spelling note, LTCTed; I made the correction.

Dafydd

Its on the topic of immigration but off the topic of the post. Dafydd, you want a rational, plausible alternative to this bill, right? My earlier point that there is no plausible alternative because politicians benefit from illegal immigration aside, I have a reasonable outline.

Rather than change our whole mode of operation, why not just alter the current system. With a little thought, it becomes obvious why illegals come here -- work, schools for their kids, hospitals, and money for the folks back home. I don't blame them, really. Who wouldn't?

But the problem is they hurt everyone else. So how do you keep them out? A fence? Catch-and-release? Catch-and-jail? Unlikely; I'm reminded of Heinlein's parable about the ape locked in the room with 5 ways out designed by the scientists who then watched him to see which way he would find. He escaped a 6th way.

You have to remove the incentive. Now this can be done in any number of ways, but I think the easiest ones are to target employers.

Any employer caught employing illegals will be fined. I-9 forms should be taken seriously. Make it hurt. $5,000? $50,000? I don't care. Illegals who can't find work won't stay. You gotta eat to live, and you gotta work to eat.

Demand I-9 style identification to rent property, take advantage of health care, attend school, or get any kind of "papers" (as in anything that requires a notary).

I guarantee you that if there are no jobs because employers have done the cost benefit analysis and suddenly illegals are no longer cheaper than legal citizens voila! "Honest" illegals will disappear. All you will be left with are the crooks, gang bangers and terrorists.

But as I said before the whole thing is an exercise in futility because no one on the Hill cares one whit about stopping or even curbing illegal immigration.

k2aggie07:

It's futile for a different reason: By realistic, I mean a solution that can actually pass through Congress.

There is no reason for Democrats to support this bill without a sweetener. They're not going to support conservatives just because conservatives want them to.

Tell me the scenario by which this could pass Congress.

Dafydd

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