The anti-war crowd have been looking for their "Lt. William L. Calley" for some time now. Many of the rest of us have allowed them to keep searching.

The My Lai massacre happened around March of 1968, and Lt. Calley was convicted around March of 1971. In "September 1974 his conviction was overturned and he was released."

War is about killing...not about "ethics". Anyway, apparently there was a "bomb explosion that targeted a military convoy" (AKA "Roadside Bomb"), and those are usually set off close by, with cell phones and such. A Marine (at least one) was murdered, and apparently other Marines took out a nearby taxi and houses. So what, that is what they should do. What if there was another bomb or two hidden in the area, do we expect our Troops to just wait and see, whilst Iraqi's are also running around with video cameras?!?!?!

Our Marines made one mistake...they did not wipe out the entire city of Haditha, and i'm talking wiping out *EVERY* man, woman, child, and reporter!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let the otherside waste their money on "ethical" Soldiers, or stop taxing me for the costs of maintaining a Military.

While I agree with your take on this, I would like to include something else. The conflict in Iraq is as much political as it is tribal and terroristic. As such, this incident is going to spawn other outcrys from those in Iraq who wish to do us harm, however they can. There is already a new charge of American butchery that has been made in the killing of (I bellieve) five Iraqi "civilians", this is not counting the two women killed when they didn't stop at a checkpoint.

So, as we expect the left and other enemies of our Repubic to try as hard as they can to use this against not only the military and the conflict in Iraq, but anything republican as well, our enemies in Iraq will be shouting "More American butchery"and such almost everytime there is a firefight. Dead Insurgents will become civilians and if necessary, they will kill women and children (with M-4s and other American weapons)to make the press and the governements believe it.

Papa Ray

Dafydd,

Are not the "insurgents" civilians under the normal rules of war? Since they are, why should we get bent out of shape because some "civilians" were found with holes in them that may or may not have been the cause of death or even ones fired by our Marines.

This story smells. It would be best if the drive-by media and its willing accomplices wait until a thorough investigation has been completed (yeah, I know, fat chance).

[Aside to Monkyboy: Spellcheckers are free... it may be too much to ask you to vet your logic but you could at least vet your spelling. ;) /Aside ]

IF these Marines committed murder, they will be convicted and sentenced. Keep in mind what this implies: The US Military does not accept acts of Murder committed by our own troops.

As far as how this plays out, neither result will have any affect whatsoever on American's views on the War:

Those who SUPPORT the War do not support Murder, and do not identify our troops with the act of Murder. Killing, yes... but not Murder: The fact that our Military is aggressively pursuing the truth and any resulting convictions is proof enough for them that these acts would be an anomaly.

Those who OPPOSE the War will not be satisfied in any event, and will still accuse our entire Military of these types of crimes and worse; and will believe those charges despite any evidence to the contrary.

The ONLY effect of the debate being held in the Press without the benefit of any proven facts is that the Enemies of the United States can use the unsubstantiated charges against our troops being made publicly by our OWN POLITICIANS as tools against us on the world stage.

Way to go.

Mac's Mind has some interesting info as well.

All I know for sure is that something bad happened at Haditha, and some civilians were killed. Anything beyond that is irresponsible speculation.

Two points to consider oh scaly one who draws his own references to the size of his lizard.

1) The left's attempt to promote mighty morphin ranger Jesse and his sort (which were so easily debunked) I think will also mute the story. We've heard all of this before. This one just seems to be more credible based on the inital facts. Remember the "rape of Iraqi women" story?

2) Their is a third scenario. The Iraqis ad the US are conducting independent investigations. Imagine if they come to different conclusions. Those who want to believe the marines are capable of this would cite the investigation that supports their positions. Those who don't want to believe the marines are capable of this would cite the other. In some ways this would be the worst case scenario, especially if the US investigation determined no issue and the Iraqi investigation concluded there was a problem.

Looks like the comment section is a bit screwy as it posted my comment three times.

"Abu Ghraib was grotesque"

It got even worse yestereday when an enlisted man was found guilty of allowing his dog to bark at a detainee (terrorist) at Abu
Ghraib.
Playing with girl's panties goes on in college dorms, fraternity houses and even in the Oval Office. What an outrage.

This country is sick and getting sicker (quote from Bob Grant)

The terroists in this war shows no restaint whatsoever. Innocent civilians? No such thing. Torturing captives? Check. Chemical weapons. Sure. Hostages, kidnapping? Of course. Al Queda and the Baathest thugs will resort to anything, anytime, anywhere.

And yet, there is this ho-hum attitude from the press and the Muslum world. An "ah, what are you gonna do?"

Really the only thing prolonging this war is our own restraint. Haditha could be pacified tommorrow if the U.S. military decided that protection of civilians was no longer a priority.
This war will end overnight if the U.S. ever decides to operate under the same rules of engaugement as the terrorists.

The U.S. military has operated with unbelievable restraint, given the situation. And yeah, this stinks of a set-up.

Little Green Footballs claims the main reports of the incident, upon which much of the hubub has been founded, apparantly came from a Reuters report authored by someone who had just recently been released from U.S. custody.

I think I'll wait for the DVD before worrying about this report.

LittleGreenFootballs

Monkyboy that is not true, the mayor of Hadith complained to the Marines soon after the incident and a report was filed and an investigation begun within days. It was not ignored.

I heard this on NPR, which is not exactly considered a right wing news agency.

These Marines have a very difficult job to do and while it is no doubt easy for the Saddam Hussein fan club to pass judgment on them I doubt seriously if many of the finger pointers can even imagine what it is like for them to wonder when the next bomb will blow.

BTW, I also heard on that NPR report that the US pays condolence money. If a civilian can claim that an American is responsible for a death or property damage, deliberate or not they will be reimbursed. It is apparently a custom in those parts.

No wonder so many people in Iraq seem to be walking around with video cameras.

monkyboy:

They are not spinning anything, they investigated it, and then apparently decided to take another look at it after they had additional infomrmation. How about we remember that these young men have certain rights and allow the investigation to end before we decide they are guilty?

I realize that there are people out there salivating at the thought of hurting the military and Bush and the soldiers but the truth is these young men perform a thousand acts of kindness each and every day and people like you have no problem at all overlookng that. So I tell you what, whenever the Bush bad, America bad, Marines bad people want to show something resembling objectivity and fairness concerning the job done by the US military then and only then can they lecture the Marines for not moving fast enough to investigate violent death in Iraq.

What other country in the world puts this kind of time and energy and effort into even discussing the deaths of 24 people?

BTW I also read that Defense lawyers for the Marines are requesting drone footage claiming it will exonerate the troops. I would be greatly surprised if this were true, but it would be great to sucker punch the press. God knows they like sucker punching people themselves.

terrye

Only the American military is scrutinized for this kind of activity. Who knows what Russians have done in Chechnya? We hardly ever hear about how the Chinese government put down peaceful demonstrations (by shooting real bullets at them). Who talked about all the ethnic cleansing in Sudan by the Moslem thugs supported by the government?

We fight against terrorists with one hand tied behind our backs. Even then we are kicking the terrorists' behind. We must have the greatest military in the world, no thanks to certain individuals like Congressman Murtha.

Sachi:

Tis true.

Well said, Sachi.
And it cannot be emphasized enough that murtha lied when he claimed the alleged killings were cold blooded murder. At the least, they took place as part of a fire fight.

Thanks for hissing in, . Now you can slither in with a comment, o wise. (sign out)

(If you haven't hissed a comment here before, you may need to be approved by the site owner before your comment will appear. Until then, it won't appear on the entry. Hang loose; don't shed your skin!)

URL:
Remember me unto the end of days? AyeNay!

Comments: (Sssselect text and bite a button to apply HTML tagssssss...)